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 Post subject: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:39 am 
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Howdy.
Ive got a modding questions, yay!
I ran into something that I don't really understand.

I have a system with a population zone -> area_scout... pop type = background and so on.
This zone works... spawns encounters as it should.
Everything is fine until I put a tradelane into the system (just the tradelane object, no zones).
The previously working population zone stops working instantly. No encounters anymore in the system.

I am not sure what the problem is. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:57 am 
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That is weird...

Well a thought of going around it is try adding a zone around the TL all the way just big enough to fit over the TL. Then see if there is anything spawning up to and around the TL with that zone in place. May help to narrow down what is causing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Can you zip the system.ini and post it here?

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:31 pm 
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I guess posting the code right here is good enough.
After I noticed this problem I removed everything from the system which has nothing to do with the problem.
I first thought that one of the many hex edits or one of the plugins caused this misbehaviour but meanwhile did tests which showed that this problem even happens with vanilla files and no plugins.
And I noticed that even certain vanilla zones (in particular a lootable field in leeds) have this problem.
I am not sure why a zone works normally and then stops working when a tradelane gets added... does not sound logical but unfortunatly it is the case.

Code:
[SystemInfo]
name = cf07
space_color = 0, 0, 0
local_faction = br_p_grp

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_miners
filename = missions\encounters\area_miners.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = tradelane_trade_freighter
filename = missions\encounters\tradelane_trade_freighter.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_assault
filename = missions\encounters\area_assault.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_scout
filename = missions\encounters\area_scout.ini

[TexturePanels]
file = universe\heavens\shapes.ini

[Music]
space = crossfire_ambient6
danger = crossfire_danger
battle = crossfire_battle6

[Dust]
spacedust = Dust

[Ambient]
color = 5, 5, 5

[Background]
basic_stars = solar\starsphere\starsphere_stars_basic.cmp
complex_stars = solar\starsphere\cf_starsphere_stars6.cmp
nebulae = solar\starsphere\starsphere_li01.cmp

[LightSource]
nickname = cf07_system_light
pos = -31, 0, -48
color = 120, 170, 255
range = 800000
type = DIRECTIONAL
atten_curve = DYNAMIC_DIRECTION

[Object]
nickname = cf07_sun2
ids_name = 261018
ids_info = 66158
pos = -7780, 0, -17462
archetype = sun_1000
star = med_blue_sun
atmosphere_range = 11000
burn_color = 160, 222, 245

[Object]
nickname = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_1
ids_name = 260727
pos = 37074, 0, -39631
rotate = 0, -112, 0
archetype = Trade_Lane_Ring
next_ring = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_2
reputation = ku_p_grp
ids_info = 66170
tradelane_space_name = 196753
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 8
loadout = trade_lane_ring_ku_01
pilot = pilot_solar_easy
visit = 1

[Object]
nickname = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_2
ids_name = 260727
pos = 44008, 0, -36772
rotate = 0, -112, 0
archetype = Trade_Lane_Ring
prev_ring = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_1
reputation = ku_p_grp
ids_info = 66170
tradelane_space_name = 196754
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 8
loadout = trade_lane_ring_ku_01
pilot = pilot_solar_easy
visit = 1

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_CF07_Tradelane_01
pos = 40541, 0, -38201
rotate = 0, -112, 0
shape = BOX
size = 1598, 1598, 8000
comment = Tradelane Pop
lane_id = 1
tradelane_down = 35
sort = 51
toughness = 4
density = 3
repop_time = 25
max_battle_size = 4
pop_type = major_tradelane
relief_time = 35
faction_weight = co_ic_grp, 20
faction_weight = co_nws_grp, 20
faction_weight = co_os_grp, 20
faction_weight = co_ss_grp, 20
faction_weight = co_vr_grp, 20
encounter = tradelane_trade_freighter, 4, 1.000000
faction = co_ic_grp, 0.200000
faction = co_nws_grp, 0.200000
faction = co_os_grp, 0.200000
faction = co_ss_grp, 0.200000
faction = co_vr_grp, 0.200000

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_CF07_newfield_01
ids_name = 471261
ids_info = 471309
pos = 83474, 0, -27360
rotate = 0, -62, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 49893, 13948, 13948
property_flags = 32768
property_fog_color = 200, 130, 0
ids_info = 65939
visit = 32
interference = 0.600000
drag_modifier = 1.250000
sort = 13
toughness = 12
density = 5
repop_time = 20
max_battle_size = 4
pop_type = Background
relief_time = 35
faction_weight = rh_m_grp, 15
faction_weight = fc_b_grp, 5
encounter = area_scout, 12, 0.500000
faction = fc_b_grp, 1.000000
encounter = area_assault, 12, 0.500000
faction = rh_m_grp, 1.000000



The tradelane pop zone with the tradelane_trade_freighter encounter is btw. working while the area_scout/assault stops to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:56 pm 
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At first glance the problem might be that there are only 2 rings. Tradelane encounters usually occur in a center ring so they can disrupt it and there isn't one.

You could also comment these out for testing:

interference = 0.600000
drag_modifier = 1.250000

sort = 51 ;51 is usually reserved for Ambient pop of the system, not a tradelane

faction_weight = co_ic_grp, 20 ; I can infer you have made level 20 ships for these factions?

If that doesn't help I will look again...

----------------------
from my 'sort' tutorial:

1-49 These are used for anything not listed below (don't duplicate numbers) These HAVE populations. None of these are in any particular order by type.

50, 51, 52, 53 used for 'ambient' population zones only

74 paths (trade_path) In Hi01 and Bw01 at least

76 paths (attack_patrol, lane_patrol) In Hi01 and Bw01 at least

96, 97, 98 paths (trade_path, mining_path) (These HAVE populations)

Some systems use 99 and 99.500000 interchangeably

99 paths (attack_patrol, lane_patrol), atmo burn, docking ring

99.500000 (NONE of these have populations):

gate
hole
base
sun death
planet death
destroy vignette
exclusions (including destroy_vignette exclusions)
debrisdust, radioactivedust
minefield
ice_asteroid
tradelane lane
ring
-------------------------

so, putting a 51 in there (since I read that the sorts assign zone priorities) may have taken precedence from another zone?

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:47 pm 
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2 tradelane rings work as good as more of them (its a matter of spawn distance)

however the tradelane zone is not the problem...

Zone_CF07_newfield_01 is the one that is not working
and its an ordinary ambient pop zone
This zone refuses to work... no npcs... if I remove the 2 tradelanes from the system this zone starts to work -> npcs spawn.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:15 pm 
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That is what I am saying. Your tradelane zone is 51, which takes priority over the regular pop zone that is 13. Reverse those numbers and see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:43 am 
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Probably my mistake as I did not mention that I have added the tradelane zone after I noticed the problem.
Even with just the Zone_CF07_newfield_01 in the system (without any other zones) the problem appears.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:21 pm 
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what I did

added to a test mod:

a new system called cf07, added a gate to it, rebuilt the paths

added to the top of your ini (yours was missing):

[Nebula]
file = solar\nebula\CF07_newfield_01.ini
zone = Zone_CF07_newfield_01

made an appropriate field in the nebula folder

changed your level 20 ships to 8 (since I don't have time to create level 20 ones for them)

commented out the tradelane encounter and tested

confirmed that both bundschuh and kruger appeared and fought each other

restarted with tradelane encounter active

Universal and Gateway freighter convoys appeared at the tradelane and used it
and bunschuh and kruger still appeared in the nebula, so all is working

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:46 am 
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ok, thanks for testing
I will try to do the same now and see if it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:03 am 
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Nope, does not work here.
as soon tradelanes are in the system the encounter in the nebula stops working

Thats the current code (including the nebula and without any tradelane encounters as they are unimportant for this problem):

Quote:
[SystemInfo]
name = cf07
space_color = 0, 0, 0
local_faction = br_p_grp

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_assault
filename = missions\encounters\area_assault.ini

[EncounterParameters]
nickname = area_scout
filename = missions\encounters\area_scout.ini

[Nebula]
file = solar\nebula\CF07_newfield_04.ini
zone = Zone_CF07_newfield_01

[TexturePanels]
file = universe\heavens\shapes.ini

[Music]
space = crossfire_ambient6
danger = crossfire_danger
battle = crossfire_battle6

[Dust]
spacedust = Dust

[Ambient]
color = 5, 5, 5

[Background]
basic_stars = solar\starsphere\starsphere_stars_basic.cmp
complex_stars = solar\starsphere\cf_starsphere_stars6.cmp
nebulae = solar\starsphere\starsphere_li01.cmp

[LightSource]
nickname = cf07_system_light
pos = -31, 0, -48
color = 120, 170, 255
range = 800000
type = DIRECTIONAL
atten_curve = DYNAMIC_DIRECTION

[Object]
nickname = cf07_sun2
ids_name = 261018
ids_info = 66158
pos = -7780, 0, -17462
archetype = sun_1000
star = med_blue_sun
atmosphere_range = 11000
burn_color = 160, 222, 245

[Object]
nickname = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_1
ids_name = 260727
pos = 37074, 0, -39631
rotate = 0, -112, 0
archetype = Trade_Lane_Ring
next_ring = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_2
reputation = ku_p_grp
ids_info = 66170
tradelane_space_name = 196753
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 8
loadout = trade_lane_ring_ku_01
pilot = pilot_solar_easy
visit = 1

[Object]
nickname = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_2
ids_name = 260727
pos = 44008, 0, -36772
rotate = 0, -112, 0
archetype = Trade_Lane_Ring
prev_ring = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_1
reputation = ku_p_grp
ids_info = 66170
tradelane_space_name = 196754
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 8
loadout = trade_lane_ring_ku_01
pilot = pilot_solar_easy
visit = 1

[Zone]
nickname = Zone_CF07_newfield_01
ids_name = 471261
ids_info = 471309
pos = 83474, 0, -27360
rotate = 0, -62, 0
shape = ELLIPSOID
size = 49893, 13948, 13948
property_flags = 32768
property_fog_color = 200, 130, 0
ids_info = 65939
visit = 32
sort = 13
toughness = 8
density = 5
repop_time = 20
max_battle_size = 4
pop_type = Background
relief_time = 35
faction_weight = rh_m_grp, 4
faction_weight = fc_b_grp, 2
encounter = area_scout, 4, 0.500000
faction = fc_b_grp, 1.000000
encounter = area_assault, 4, 0.500000
faction = rh_m_grp, 1.000000

[Object]
nickname = cf07_to_CF01
ids_name = 254198
pos = 82502, 0, 8433
rotate = 0, 0, 0
Archetype = nomad_gate
msg_id_prefix = gcs_refer_system_Li02
ids_info = 66145
jump_effect = jump_effect_bretonianomad
reputation = li_p_grp
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 1
goto = CF01, CF01_to_cf07, gate_tunnel_bretonia
pilot = pilot_solar_easiest
visit = 1


So difference between this:
Image
and that:
Image

is

Quote:
[Object]
nickname = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_1
ids_name = 260727
pos = 37074, 0, -39631
rotate = 0, -112, 0
archetype = Trade_Lane_Ring
next_ring = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_2
reputation = ku_p_grp
ids_info = 66170
tradelane_space_name = 196753
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 8
loadout = trade_lane_ring_ku_01
pilot = pilot_solar_easy
visit = 1

[Object]
nickname = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_2
ids_name = 260727
pos = 44008, 0, -36772
rotate = 0, -112, 0
archetype = Trade_Lane_Ring
prev_ring = CF07_Trade_Lane_Ring_1
reputation = ku_p_grp
ids_info = 66170
tradelane_space_name = 196754
behavior = NOTHING
difficulty_level = 8
loadout = trade_lane_ring_ku_01
pilot = pilot_solar_easy
visit = 1


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Here is a test mod with everything working. I hope it helps you to narrow the problem down.

Delete your restart.fl before launching :)
When you undock use the gate, not the hole.

Sending by pm..

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:19 pm 
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thx, will keep trying


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Ok the system was working in your test mod... the system refused to work in my mod (same prob).
I used your test mod and merged it bit by bit with my mod to see at which point the encounter would stop spawning.

Error source was the tlr_lod.3db which must somehow have been damaged on my mod.
Your test mod was a big help and i am glad that I am not too stupid to build FL systems ^^

Thx for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Problem
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:03 pm 
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This is a great thread at least if this happens again we know where to look for the cause. You both are great modders.


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